NORTH WEST INTERMEDIATE RUGBY UNION LEAGUES
NORTH WEST INTERMEDIATE RUGBY UNION LEAGUES
SPONSORED BY HALBRO
Minutes of the A.G.M. Meeting: Leigh RUFC on 4th July 2023
Committee Present:
Fred Swarbrick, John Powell, Andy Thompson, Paul Riordan, Peter Harrison, Peter Rhodes, Craig Ross, Tommy Hughes, I Cousens and Greg King
Apologies Committee:
Craig Hine, Mark Ashley and Sarah Shackleton
Attendees
Eddie Wills Birchfield Warren Atkinson Fylde Brian Stevenson Ormskirk Neil Hawkley Marple Jim Curtis Macclesfield Gordon Davis Caldy Andrew Souter Caldy Graham Winstanley Orrell John McAuley Withenshawe Geoff Pervis Warrington Steve Johnson Withenshawe Gareth Dixon Trentham Mark Downs Leigh & Lancashire RFU Derek Leake Leigh Andy Nicholson Trentham Don Edmondson Eccles Steve LLoyd Christleton Paul Willis CarringtonDon Edmondson Eccles
Meeting opened at 19:30
Chairman’s Report
Fred Swarbrick started the meeting outlining the success and failures of the previous season.He thanked the Committee for their continued good work and the Sponsors for their support.He also thanked the Clubs for their support and the work behind the scenes to get teams out each saturday.
Finance:
GK present the accounts for year ending 31st May 2023, and he report a loss in year of just over £8,000. The current balance is £23,389.55. The balance in the Benevolent Fund is £10,378.59. During the 22/23 season only one payment of £500 was paid out to a player.It was agreed to look at expenditure for the main account so as to stop the overspend. GK put a proposal to the floor to raise membership fees from £50 to £75. A discussion took place and a counter proposal came from the floor from Warren Atkinson (Fylde) and seconded by Jim Curtis (Macclesfield). The proposal was to raise the fees to £100 a year. Vote was 14 for £100 and 6 for £75. Membership fees for 22/23 will be £100 per team.
Fixture Secretary:
We started last season with 143 teams but during the season we lost 21 of these teams. 9 of these teams were lost by the end of October with most not having played a single game. 4 teams lasted until February having played a good number of games but injuries and call up to senior teams put pressure on them.There was a great deal of work taking place behind the scenes by the League Managers in liaison with the team captains to ensure game were played. We allowed teams to agree a postponement and rearrange and this seemed to help to avoid difficult weekends.The finishing of the season during mid-March was strange and the Papa John’s Cup didn’t help. We found that some senior teams didn’t enter these cups which caused situations whereby lower teams were strengthened. Also, some senior teams entered the Papa John’s Cup and then withdrew which had an effect on their lower teams who we had to remove from our Cup Competitions. However, we saw some really good competitions throughout the Leagues, and we managed under the RFU Statistics to achieve a 70% + playing rate which was the highest in the country for Leagues at this level.Our 7 Cup Competitions culminated in finals at Anselmians and Leigh, two hosts we must thank for the efforts they put in. However, playing these games so close together at the end of the season caused some organisation problems.Next season we will start again with 143 teams, strengthened by the inclusion of teams coming over from the Combi Leagues. Again, this will be run in 12 Leagues. We have also decided to play our Cup Competitions through the season which means we will be playing League matches when the senior teams are playing their Papa John’s Cup matches. However, the same problems still exist.
There was a discussion around the fixtures and Brian Stephenson (Ormskirk) raised the issue of the effect of Papa John’s cup being held once again held at the end of the season. It was pointed out that wouldn’t affect the NORWIRUL cups as will be throughout the season, but may affect the league programme. He also asked if the League had considered the effect of the Rugby World cup on the fixtures.
Rule Changes:
PROPOSAL 1
Proposed by JP and Seconded by FS
CUP RULES Rule 3 Knock out
The Competitions will be played on a Knock-out basis. The ties will be played as drawn.Change toMost Cup Competitions will be organised as Knockout Competitions. However, some Cup Competitions might be organised as Mini Leagues when agreed.Points will be awarded as follows5 for a win or walkover,3 for a draw,1 for playing,0 for a concede.1 point for losing within 7 points.In the Premier Cup only, a 4 Try Bonus Point will be awarded. Positions in each Mini League would decide progression to the next stages.League position shall be determined by 1.League points awarded Should this be equal,2.Team with least concedes takes senior position. Should this be equal,3.Head to head results. At this point – Points For and Against to be taken into consideration. Should this be equal.4.Toss of a coin. JP explained the reason behind this as there was some confusion in league placing in the division 1 cup last seasonVote:
Agreed unanimously
PROPOSAL 2
Proposed by JP and Seconded by FS
LEAGUE RULES Rule 18 Concedes
A refundable bond of £100 should be levied on any team that has been excluded and re-admitted the following season. This will be refunded upon completing the next season successfully. This bond will rise to £200 if a team is excluded 2 seasons running and so on.Change this part toFees will be DOUBLED, for any team that has been excluded and re-admitted the following season. This will not be refunded.JP explained this was mainly to encourage sides to think carefully before entering a side, and to make admin easier
Vote: Against unanimously – not carried
PROPOSAL 3
Proposed by JP and Seconded by FS
LEAGUE RULES Rule 20 Rearrangements
If a team requires a re-arrangement, they must gain the agreement of their opponents and a new date agreed. This information must be communicated immediately to their League Manager. If there are no dates available, the re-arrangement cannot take place and the fixture is expected to be played on the original dateADDNo ‘AGREED POSTPONEMENTS’ will be allowed during the week preceding a scheduled fixture.Rest of Rule can remain.JP explained this was to try and stop late cancellations and cry offs which then are agreed as a re-arrangement. A discussion took place around how early a team would know it was going to be short of players and would need a re-arrangement. A lot of teams admitted they didn’t find out until the week of the game
Vote: For 2 Against 15 – Not carried
PROPOSAL 4
Proposed by Andrew Soutar Seconder Fylde Warren Atkinson
League Rule 13 Points Allocation
Points will be awarded as follows5 for a win or walkover,3 for a draw,1 for playing,0 for a concede.1 point for losing within 7 points. In the Premier League only, a 4 Try Bonus Point will be awarded. This will also be the case in the Conferences A, B and C.Change these parts
I propose an amendment to the league rules in relation to conceded/pools panel games, Fylde Rugby Club seconds this:If a team concedes a game, the non-conceding team should receive the maximum points ie 6 points (1 point for turning up, 4 for the win and 1 for scoring four tries), not the five points that are presently awarded.We also believe that if the match goes to pools panel then 4 try bonus points can and should be awarded having considered the relevant records of the teams involved . The present rules mean that a team at no fault misses out on one point which could be crucial come the end of the season.Note this only applies in Premier League.
Voted to be Carried
PROPOSAL 5
Proposed by Jim Curtis at Macclesfield Seconded by John Gillighan at Rochdale
League Rule 18:
CONCEDES
1.In the Premier, Championship and Division 1, any team which concedes THREE games in the course of a season will be expelled from the league and their records expunged. In all other Divisions, any team that concedes FOUR games in the course of a season will be expelled immediately and their records expunged.
2.If a club’s higher team is expelled all their teams below that team will have to leave the Leagues as well.
3.When a team’s records are expunged any conceded games against that team will be expunged as well. Any team expelled from the League for failing to fulfil fixtures will not automatically be re-admitted the following season. If any team is expelled from the League then any lower teams from the same club will also be expelled. In the event of a side being expelled from the Leagues and then re-applying for the following season, they will then be introduced, if their application is accepted, in a league, one lower than their previous position. A refundable bond of £100 should be levied on any team that has been excluded and re-admitted the following season. This will be refunded upon completing the next season successfully. This bond will rise to £200 if a team is excluded 2 seasons running and so on.
Proposed Regulations Rule 18:
CONCEDES
1.In the Premier, Championship and Division 1, any team which concedes THREE games in the course of a season will be unable to win the league. In all other Divisions, any team that concedes FOUR games in the course of a season will be unable to win the league.
2.In all Divisions, any team concedes SEVEN games in the course of a season will be expelled immediately and their records expunged.
3.If a club’s higher team is expelled this will have no impact on their teams below that team4.When a team’s records are expunged any conceded games against that team will be expunged as well.Any team expelled from the League for failing to fulfil fixtures will not automatically be re-admitted the following season. In the event of a side being expelled from the Leagues and then re-applying for the following season, they will then be introduced, if their application is accepted, in a league, one lower than their previous position. A refundable bond of £100 should be levied on any team that has been excluded and re-admitted the following season. This will be refunded upon completing the next season successfully. This bond will rise to £200 if a team is excluded 2 seasons running and so on.
Jim, Apologies for the correction here, I did respond to your email. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I said I would support your motion regarding expulsion raised from 4 to 7 games however I disagreed with your amendment point “If a club’s higher team is expelled this will have no impact on their teams below that team”. I maintain if a higher team is expelled then the lower teams must also be removed from their leagues. Also, I have no affiliation with Warrington RUFC and represent Rochdale. I am happy to support the proposal that expulsion from the league is at 7 conceded fixtures.Yours sincerely… John Gillighan Rochdale 2nds, 3rds, 4ths manager. It was pointed out that the second part of the proposal regarding the lower teams not affected by a senior teams expulsion could not be voted on as it did not have a seconder.A discussion took place around the subject of the number of concedes. Jim Curtis from Macclesfield (proposer) said that by expelling teams after (3 in Premier and Div 1 and 4 for the rest) was stopping a number of people from playing rugby. It was pointed out that any club that was expelled could still use the league fixtures as friendlies, but this rarely happened. The rule was to encourage teams to play rather than be expelled and there were many examples of teams who had travelled with 5,7, 10 and in one case 2 players ensuring 20+ players got a game.It was also pointed out about the effect on club finances, as it proved by the statistics from the 22/23 season 11 out of 12 concedes are away fixtures, so bar takings, sponsorship deals etc may well be affected.
Vote: For 2 Against 15 – not carried
Committee:
All re-elected – unanimous
AOB:
Andrew Souter (Caldy) asked if it was possible to change the arrangements for the AGM to allow for notification to be earlier giving a longer period for proposals to be raised. It was suggested 28 day’s notice with 21 days for proposals.
A discussion took place regarding player registration and whether the league where intending to introduce electronic match cards. JP replied at present the League had no intention to use them due the admin required but may be mandated to in the future. John MacAuley (Wythenshawe) said that electronic match cards would help to prove team loading. PH pointed out that it would create further admin as the League would need to create new rules and regulations as to the number of games a player had to play for an higher team before he became ineligible to play for a lower side. But what about loss of form, returning from injury etc.
Meeting Closed 21:20
DATE OF NEXT AGM TUESDAY 2nd July at Leigh RUFC